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Poster: ScarletTouchFire Date: Nov 28, 2005 5:24am
Forum: etree Subject: What you people dont seem to understand.....

Ive done a little bit of research and spoken to a few people in the "record industry" and heres what ive been able to ascertain. Yeah, the Grateful Dead i.e Jerr Bob Phil, etc. love the fans to share music with each other, but NOT for profit! Theyve been steadfast against this since day 1. And that is EXACTLY what is happening. IM SHOCKED that no one has brought up this point yet. Just because WE go on the Archive and dload shows to our C drive or our pod, doesnt mean EVERYONE is doing this. There are hundreds of "trade shows" (like the BMG) every year where "entrepreneurs" burn dozens upon dozens of shows onto cds, make cute little packages and booklets and sell them for 15 bucks a pop. It happens, trust me. I know people who have bought them. They dont have the time or the patience to download and "burn", they make a good living, so they fork over the dough for Downs of Santa Fe 83'

Look, ive been a fan for many many years, seen 70 or 80 shows, spent THOUSANDS of dollars (id like to think that i helped pay for the beemer that Jerry was busted in back in 86) but i have no problem, NONE, continuing to put money in GDP's pocket, none what-so-ever. Look, Garcia gave his life for the music. That sweet, complicated, genius can never see another sunset because of the music, and the fame and the fans and what it all did to him. The least i can do is fork over 15 bucks for a show to put in Weirs or Billys pocket. Or to help pay the salary for one of the secretarys over there.

You people who think that this is "your" music and are entitled to it really upset me (im using kind words). you are entitled to NOTHING. We should all be thankful for what we got (i dloaded about 70 shows) and accept it. This attitude is the same elitest hippy attitude that i encountered on tour for so many years.

The Archive was loved by many, and taken advantage of by a select few, and now we are ALL suffering because of thier greddy actions. Read what David Gans has to say about all of this. His words ring true. This is WHY the Audience dloads have been stripped. People are taking advantage, the lawyers net geeks, techies and "ears" that report to GDP figured this all out and now they are putting a stop to it period. As for the "other" sites. I can imagine they will be around for too much longer.

Thank you Diana for the 2 year joy that you and IA gave to me and my danicing 3 yr old girl. Bless you and your family.

AND A BIG PS: for those who feel that the GD stopped having fun by the late 80's and 90's PLEASE PLEASE pick up "Truckin Up to Buffalo" on dvd. I am honored to say that i was at this gem and is in my top 20 of ALL TIME shows...Youve NEVER seen Jerry move and smile so much! One of the BEST Berthas EVER. Just look at the way Weir is smiling when Jerry is FLYING during the solo on Deal. Jerry BEAMING before the start of the 2nd set STILL brings a tear to my eye. The Not Fade Away rivals some of the best and the Garcia/Mydland exchange is rapidly becomimg legendary. The US Blues to cap it all off makes me realize that Ole Jerr DID have a good voice.

I miss Jerry terribly, i miss going to shows and the joy that it gave me for 10 solid years (yeah, im 36)..

At the very end of US Blues, when the rest of the band has quickly rushed backstage, Jerry, right before he disappears behind the amps, turns around and waves to the crowd.

$15.99 for a dload? Tell me where to mail the check

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Poster: davidbarfield Date: Nov 28, 2005 6:39am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: What you people dont seem to understand.....

"Look, Garcia gave his life for the music. That sweet, complicated, genius can never see another sunset because of the music, and the fame and the fans and what it all did to him."

um, i think it had more to do with the coke and smack, dude. talk about deluded thought! jerry a genius? sure. a genius who poisened himself and slowly killed himself...not becasue of fans, music, fame or any other factor other than he was a drug addict in addition to being a musical genius. time to grow up...?

"The least i can do is fork over 15 bucks for a show to put in Weirs or Billys pocket. Or to help pay the salary for one of the secretarys over there."

go for it. 'tis your choice of course.

"You people who think that this is "your" music and are entitled to it really upset me (im using kind words). you are entitled to NOTHING. We should all be thankful for what we got (i dloaded about 70 shows) and accept it. This attitude is the same elitest hippy attitude that i encountered on tour for so many years."

actually it was what was insinuated by the gd for many years--well prior to your arrival on the scene, trust me. entitiled? nope. just following the example. elitists? huh? dopey hippies for sure--in many cases, annoying, etc...but in all the years i was onthe road, i found far more community among the hard-cores than anywhere else in the country--and certainly far more than was associated with a rock band..

"The Archive was loved by many, and taken advantage of by a select few, and now we are ALL suffering because of thier greddy actions. Read what David Gans has to say about all of this. His words ring true. This is WHY the Audience dloads have been stripped. People are taking advantage, the lawyers net geeks, techies and "ears" that report to GDP figured this all out and now they are putting a stop to it period. As for the "other" sites. I can imagine they will be around for too much longer."

i wonder how much money? i'm not arguing the point, because i don't know. but you're right, to the exteent that this was happening it is wrong.

"Thank you Diana for the 2 year joy that you and IA gave to me and my danicing 3 yr old girl. Bless you and your family."

and don't forget about all of those tapers and archivists (c.m. especially) who've spend a LOT of time recording, tweaking, uploading, fixing, and otherwise providing the dance music your kid likes so much.

"$15.99 for a dload? Tell me where to mail the check "

when your h/d crashes and you lose your data, or after the cdr fails as they do, does gdp buy you another d/l?

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Poster: DynoMike Date: Nov 28, 2005 10:22am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: What you people dont seem to understand.....

I handed over my $19.90 for the latest official Dead FLAC download the beginning of this month. 3 full CDs of 80 minutes in length each. Worth every penny for the full 9/3/80 show and Set II of 9/4/80.

*"when your h/d crashes and you lose your data, or after the cdr fails as they do, does gdp buy you another d/l?"*

To follow the logic put forth, if I bought the latest Trey Anastasio CD, if I scratched it, and it was unplayable, I would expect Trey (or Sony?) to send me a new CD, right??

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Poster: davidbarfield Date: Nov 28, 2005 10:46am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: What you people dont seem to understand.....

*"when your h/d crashes and you lose your data, or after the cdr fails as they do, does gdp buy you another d/l?"*

"To follow the logic put forth, if I bought the latest Trey Anastasio CD, if I scratched it, and it was unplayable, I would expect Trey (or Sony?) to send me a new CD, right??"

incorrect. the belief that store-bought cds (or those made by the same process as what you'd pick up in a store) and cdrs are the same is wrong. professionally made cds, such as what you might buy in a record store are a particular media = foil backed cds. cdrs are ink based. and well, they have a really scheitty life expectancy. even when one uses them to store data, they ain't that great. there are differences in cdrs = some better than others, but when you start adding it up for high end cdrs...it gets kinda pricey.

so, not only are cdrs more prone to being scratched to the point of unreadability, but even when they are in perfect shape they don't hold data forever...and actually for a really (relatively) brief period of time. so my masters from '80 on tdk metal tapes still play without much (at least as what i can hear) deterioration--if i get 6 months out of a cdr, i'm elated. but ain't no way anybody's getting 25 years of storage on a cdr. feh!

so to answer your question: the trey cd is not the same as the dead show you've d/led and burned on your own with respect to both's integrity. they trey disc is better -- you have 3 choices for d/led stuff: 1) burn it to a crappy media (cdr) 2) burn the data to cdr and take your chances (better than the wav files) , or 3) save it on your hard drive. that'll work great because h/ds NEVER have any kind of problems, right?

but there are alternatives: r.a.i.d. systems are better than nothing and i'm sure you can string a few of those together to protect your data--no biggie.

not long ago the library of congress held a conference on data storage. they found that as far as digital data goes, nothing is fool-proof. that's the nice thing about archive.org. they have the capacity to store stuff...and apparently the resources to back it up. most of us don't have that kind of time, money or know-how.

but, if you do scratch your trey disc, write the guy a letter and tell him that he owes you another. see what he says. from what i understand, he's a pretty nice guy.

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Poster: aikox2 Date: Nov 29, 2005 2:34am
Forum: etree Subject: "...if i get 6 months out of a cdr, i'm elated."

"...if i get 6 months out of a cdr, i'm elated."

HUH?!?!?

What do you do to your CDRs that they only last 6 months, and why would you be elated in a media that fails after such a short time?

Why would you bother even burning something if it wasn't going to be there 6 months from now?

This post was modified by aikox2 on 2005-11-29 10:34:58

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Poster: davidbarfield Date: Nov 29, 2005 2:39am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: '...if i get 6 months out of a cdr, i'm elated.'

"HUH?!?!?
What do you do to your CDRs that they only last 6 months, "
a bit of an exaggeration, yes? ok....
so let's do this: d/l something today, convert the compressed files to wav and burn them to a cdr. get back to me in 2 > 3 years and let's see if 2 important factors are intact: 1) sound quality and 2) does it still play? given the nature of the media it's unlikeoy that you'll be listening to the same thing that you did today.

"and why would you be elated in a media that fails after such a short time?"

i'm not. was being sarcastic.


"Why would you bother even burning something if it wasn't going to be there 6 months from now?"

herein lies the problem: when i record a show i'm still on dat. i'm a stick in the mud i suppose, but as for archival purposes, dat is still the most safe--however, i can't record @ a hi-res bit depth. that factor is the one that will probably get me to give up on dats. as long as there is a site like this one, where people can *archive* public domain data, i'll probably just up it here for safe keeping. but with the recent g/d tragedy we're all (now) reliant on each -- unregulated -- other. get ready for = sbd > cass > dat > cdr > mp3 > cdr > jukebox > cdr > mp3 > cdr....


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Poster: direwolf0701 Date: Nov 29, 2005 2:40am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: '...if i get 6 months out of a cdr, i'm elated.'

no kidding - i've got cdr's ive burned with stuff from gdlive and elsewhere and they have been going strong for well over 4 years

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Poster: fiyo fiyo Date: Nov 29, 2005 2:38am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: '...if i get 6 months out of a cdr, i'm elated.'

how does gdlive work? is it free? can you download, and burn onto cdr's?

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Poster: direwolf0701 Date: Nov 29, 2005 2:44am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: '...if i get 6 months out of a cdr, i'm elated.'

gdlivedotcom - shn files - just open and start downloading and then convert to burn onto cdr - works similar to here, but not quite as good. well worth checking out though - just hard to downlaod whole show at once

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Poster: fiyo fiyo Date: Nov 29, 2005 2:45am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: '...if i get 6 months out of a cdr, i'm elated.'

lol and how would you convert? i'm pretty much computer illiterate.... what can i say, i'm a dinosaur? but i'd really appreciate to know how to burn these?

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Poster: direwolf0701 Date: Nov 29, 2005 2:54am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: '...if i get 6 months out of a cdr, i'm elated.'

for the shn files you need to convert to .wav - what i use is MKWact converter - can be found on etree - just type in a search for MKWact on any search engine. download that program and after, just highlight the shn file in the folder you downlaoaded to, right-click, and "decode to wav." then you can burn them onto cd - hope this makes sense - typing fast while at work.

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Poster: fiyo fiyo Date: Nov 29, 2005 2:53am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: '...if i get 6 months out of a cdr, i'm elated.'

hey dire i really appreciate it... i'm gonna try that and see how it works... it only seems to show about 8 tracks on the gdlive... i assume it's not nearly as good as the archives... but thanks a ton... i'm gonna try it...

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Poster: direwolf0701 Date: Nov 29, 2005 3:04am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: '...if i get 6 months out of a cdr, i'm elated.'

no problem - also, make sure you go to the left of the page for "SHN Archives" - around 100 shows listed there - if you have any questions, just respond to this post so i see the response in my email - I will be offline for a couple of hours.

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Poster: psyched Date: Nov 29, 2005 5:24am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: What you people dont seem to understand.....

QUOTE: "There are hundreds of "trade shows" (like the BMG) every year where "entrepreneurs" burn dozens upon dozens of shows onto cds, make cute little packages and booklets and sell them for 15 bucks a pop. It happens, trust me. I know people who have bought them. They dont have the time or the patience to download and "burn", they make a good living, so they fork over the dough for Downs of Santa Fe 83'"

Until now THE ONLY THING Jerry and the GD asked of us regarding recordings was that money did not change hands. The "people you know" broke that simple rule. To state they didn't have the time or paitence to learn something as simple as downloading is NO EXCUSE. They should've gotten their music in ANY OTHER WAY besides $$. (Despite whatever they do for a living.) If you are as enthusistic about the GD as your mini-review of the DVD makes it seem,(LOTS of us were at that show too), you should've let these people know that what they were doing was wrong. No ambivilance, just plain WRONG.
The people selling GD CDs at trade shows are scum; I assume the people you know aren't: tell 'em to do the right thing. Peace.

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Poster: SomeHero Date: Nov 28, 2005 11:26pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: What you people dont seem to understand.....

I recall just about every member of the Dead alluding to the fact that the audience was as much a part of the musical creation process as the band was. They were one of the few bands that relied heavily on the psychic input of the audience. Like a better writer than I once said, they turned dingy concert halls into chapels of light and sound. And we helped them to do it. I always figured that's why they gave us unlimited access to their stuff.

But I'm not worried about all this crap anymore. There's no way in hades anyone is ever going to stop the trading of Dead shows. They can shut down the servers, they can start prosecuting, but there are too many people dedicated to the spirit of the thing. All those shows that were on LMA are still out there, and they'll get out one way or another.

Let the elite rich kids pay for the downloads. Us peasants will continue to trade what we can get for free and carry on the spirit of the thing without them. Jerry lives.

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Poster: HighNRGOne Date: Nov 29, 2005 2:53am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: What you people dont seem to understand.....

Thanks for a thoughtful post.

What I don't think you seem to understand is :

1. Not everyone can afford this, like you and I can. Should they just be SOL for all time?

2. Not everyone can physically or time-wise trade old style (like I did) for all of this (some are physically disabled, but can still operate a computer). If there is even just one person like this, Archive's free GD music has earned its colors.

3. I think it safe to say that everyone (like me) who downloads from Archive AND can afford official releases has proven they would still pay their dues and always would have (until now).

4. Not everyone who accesses this music is a hard-core head, many are students, artists, the curious, etc. Many soon may become heads (and customers of the official Dead offerings) once they marvel at the rich history chronicled on Archive's GD collection. Now they are left in the dark. [One example is a young musician who refers to the GD collection for reference points, inspiration, ideas, etc. Do you think a struggling musician or artist should be forced to fork over $$ to the Dead for a resource they came to use/rely one and that the Dead are trying to Grinch back from the world, after 40 years. (What is a gift, if taken back?).]

Contrary to Deadhead-centric views, this is a much bigger human resource worth sharing with a much larger world than that of heads or nostalgists.

It is now being totally corrupted and, in my view, STOLEN from the public by people who are NOT its true rightful owners (Garcia being the most rightful, in my view).

Whoever did this for profit, though, has truly cut off their face to spite their head.

Thanks for listening and for your own thoughts.

Peace.

This post was modified by HighNRGOne on 2005-11-29 10:53:14